0.8.0 Development Thread

Announcements and infodumps from the Species dev team.
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Ispil
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Re: 0.7.0 Released!

Post by Ispil » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:35 am

It would be nice if the AI expansion included creature memory. After all, there is a significant amount of "doing something in the same location across generations" in nature. Hell, it might actually make everything flow nicer- creatures not puttering about for no reason like they usually do until they spin themselves to an early grave. Then, once some sort of season mechanic is added, we might see some real beauty start happening.

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White parrot
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Re: 0.7.0 Released!

Post by White parrot » Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:30 pm

While we're on the subject, Quasar, could you draw us a little schema of the creature's intended thought process, if you please? Technically you already did that ... lessee ... here, but that was last year so there may be some changes. At worse it can help planning. Perhaps in an upcoming blog post, as I'm sure it would interest everyone.

Considering the 0.8.0 orientation I did some digging in the Suggestion forum, as I'm prone to do, so if anyone wants, here are some relevant topics:
- Additional AI -possibly the most complete Suggestion topic on the subject.
- Species deepening -include talk about "calling" and "absolute sexiness".
- Some thinking about creature's AI -my very old tentative; probably irrelevant now, included here for exhaustiveness.
- Rover-like creatures -on prey preference.
- Brainsize vs Energy vs Specialization -brain as a physical organ: anatomical limits on AI sophistication.
At this point, we shouldn't be surprised by anything nature does. She's like a meth addict whose drug-fueled rampages unfold in slow motion and span millions of years.
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Quasar
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0.8.0 Development Thread

Post by Quasar » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:30 pm

(Edit) Whoops. I had expected Ispils And White Parrots posts to appear after the OP (below) when I moved them from the 0.7.0 Thread.
Creature Intelligence.
The time has finally come: the creature’s artificial stupidity has been affecting the results of natural selection since 0.4.0, and it’s finally time to change that. We will at last be upgrading the creature’s brainz.

- Perception – Will be simplified and streamlined into a more reactive, less proactive, system, which should be both easier on the computer and more responsive when it counts (such as responding to attacks and seeking food). The system will be based on hearing and smell: the idea being that’s it’s the responsibility of the entity being detected to emit a noise/scent that creatures in the vicinity can detect and act upon.

- Stimuli – Creatures will become more responsive: stimuli like pain, temperature, starvation, sexiness and being attacked by enormous scary things will prompt actual responses from them.

- Emotions – Each creature will have a suite of emotions: the strongest will determine what task they attempt to perform next. At this stage I plan to include hunger, fear, anger, amorousness, and discomfort, as well as make the emotional system easily extensible for additional future requirements.

- Forethought – When a creature has decided to do something, they will need to plan out a series of actions. Fixing hunger doesn’t just involve moving to the nearest object and sucking on it: creatures will identify the best form of food for themselves, seek it out, kill it (if necessary) and then eat. This will be done through a Behavior Tree, allowing for complex fallback plans in the event the initial attempt fails, easy extensibility, and possibly even opening up the possibilities of modding.

All of this will hopefully lead to interesting creatures: not just on a population level, but on an individual level. The plan is that when this is done, an individual creature’s struggle for survival will be a lot less random and a lot more interesting to observe.

Additionally, this should give make creatures in general much more capable of survival, allowing me to reduce the number of trees and food available.

I had originally intended to release an additional second set of features with 0.8.0, focused around making some overdue improvements to the gameplay cycle, but have since decided against it: if I focus solely on the AI, the update will be out quicker and I’ll be less likely to get distracted. We won’t be addressing anything else this update: the AI deservedly takes center stage.
http://speciesdevblog.wordpress.com/

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Quasar
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Re: 0.7.0 Released!

Post by Quasar » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:41 pm

White parrot wrote:While we're on the subject, Quasar, could you draw us a little schema of the creature's intended thought process, if you please? Technically you already did that ... lessee ... here, but that was last year so there may be some changes. At worse it can help planning. Perhaps in an upcoming blog post, as I'm sure it would interest everyone.
Aye, that is indeed somewhat out of date. Learning about behavior tree's kinda threw all my old plans out the window. I do have a blog post planned on the subject.

PaulHenry
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Re: 0.8.0 Development Thread

Post by PaulHenry » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:05 pm

i don't know anything about programming, but, what about a "tits for tats" minigame to govern inter and intra specific coop? its simple and only work on individuals, but hey, i guess its easier to program and much lighter on the cpu? well i have no idea, maybe its the oposite.

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White parrot
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Re: 0.7.0 Released!

Post by White parrot » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:44 pm

Quasar wrote:
White parrot wrote:While we're on the subject, Quasar, could you draw us a little schema of the creature's intended thought process, if you please? Technically you already did that ... lessee ... here, but that was last year so there may be some changes. At worse it can help planning. Perhaps in an upcoming blog post, as I'm sure it would interest everyone.
Aye, that is indeed somewhat out of date. Learning about behavior tree's kinda threw all my old plans out the window. I do have a blog post planned on the subject.
Neat. :mrgreen:
Quasar wrote:- Perception – Will be simplified and streamlined into a more reactive, less proactive, system, which should be both easier on the computer and more responsive when it counts (such as responding to attacks and seeking food). The system will be based on hearing and smell: the idea being that’s it’s the responsibility of the entity being detected to emit a noise/scent that creatures in the vicinity can detect and act upon.
Interestingly, the Creatures series used a system of smell-like signals for guidance of the titular creatures. Not to say we should copy what they did, but perhaps by glancing at their work we can discover interesting concepts or detect errors we shouldn't fall in.
For example:
Note that creatures' feet smell, by which I mean that they consider there current room based on their down-foot instead of their nose - this is to avoid oscillations which could happen otherwise when a creature turns around
(source)
This sounds like the premise of hilarious bugs that could happen if we don't consider through where our creatures do smell.
At this point, we shouldn't be surprised by anything nature does. She's like a meth addict whose drug-fueled rampages unfold in slow motion and span millions of years.
Silly Otter wrote:Welcome to the forum.
Please ignore the cultists.

Inarius
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Re: 0.8.0 Development Thread

Post by Inarius » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:25 am

Just to know, but how many lines of code are there is Species, for now ? I don't have any idea. Of course I suppose the graphic part is a biggest, but if you could give us some info...

And how much do you write each day ? What is your "thing" to continue working nearly alone, on such a big project ?
Do you write everyday a few lines of code, or a big block of XXX hours every often ?
Perhaps you've written it somewhere, but in which language do you write ?
(Congratulation on 0.7, and good luck with the 0.8 !)

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Quasar
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Re: 0.8.0 Development Thread

Post by Quasar » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:51 pm

In case you haven't seen it: http://speciesdevblog.wordpress.com/201 ... -prologue/
Inarius wrote:Just to know, but how many lines of code are there is Species, for now ? I don't have any idea. Of course I suppose the graphic part is a biggest, but if you could give us some info...
48,924 according to (dir -include *.cs,*.xaml -recurse | select-string .).Count.

But of course... "Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight. - Bill Gates
And how much do you write each day ? What is your "thing" to continue working nearly alone, on such a big project ?
I usually do about two hours every day: my day job makes it hard to do more without experiencing burnout.

The closest I have to a "thing" is that those two hours are the time I spend with my laptop on the train, to and from my day job, and I have nothing installed on my laptop that I can't play without a mouse (for example, I explicitly uninstalled Dwarf Fortress from my laptop to prevent work ethic issues).

Basically, I make Species because I have nothing better to do during that time, and I deliberately arrange things to ensure I have nothing better to do during that time, because I wanna make Species.
Perhaps you've written it somewhere, but in which language do you write ?
C-Sharp (C#). It's the right mix of power and abstraction for me: I like not having to worry about every single memory issue, while still having enough control to deal with them the the abstraction leaks.

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AngerDomeAble
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Re: 0.8.0 Development Thread

Post by AngerDomeAble » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:28 am

Do you have any plans to fix the wiki?
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Ispil
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Re: 0.8.0 Development Thread

Post by Ispil » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:49 am

Still, any plans on making the AI remember certain details and repeat them to minimize actual processing (such as mating locations, feeding locations, hunting locations, et cetera)? Would run faster and be more simulat-ive.

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